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Daughter of the Lilies - 7.53

BellisPerennisBellisPerennis Administrator
edited February 14 in DotL Archive Vote Up0Vote Down
(Original page broke our importing script, so I created the thread manually.)


Oh yeah, this old thing.
Posted February 13, 2018 at 08:45 am
:(

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*The author is not affiliated with any of these communities nor the moderation thereof. 

HEY! DID YOU HAVE A REALLY CREATIVE AND ORIGINAL THEORY AS TO WHO OR WHAT THISTLE WAS? WE WANT TO PRESERVE YOUR GENIUS AND FEATURE IT HERE ON THE WEBSITE.

Thistle’s identity has been the most heavily discussed mystery of Daughter of the Lilies. During the time this story unfolded, many of you proposed incredibly creative and inspired theories as to what she could be hiding under her hood, and now that Book 1 is over and the mystery solved, we would like to take some time to acknowledge and celebrate the thought y’all put into them, as well as the incredible theories themselves.

Daughter of the Lilies will be going on a THREE MONTH BREAK as we (Yoko and Meg) rest and prepare for the start of Book 2. During this time, we would like to feature some of our favorite Thistle Theories, so that they aren’t completely lost to the ravages of time - honestly, some of them are so clever and ingenious that we hope that their authors go off to create their own stories based on them.

If you have a Thistle Theory that you are especially proud of and would like to share with others, please send it to us! We might feature it on the website during the break between books, and it will remain permanently in the archive of the comic.


Submission Requirements

  • A written description of your Thistle Theory (at the very least, a brief description, or ~500 words depending on the level of detail)

  • OPTIONAL: Original Artwork of what you think Thistle was or what she looked like.
    Note: if you’ve written a brief description instead of the more detailed one mentioned in the first requirement, artwork is heavily encouraged!

  • Your name, as you would like to be credited.

  • A URL to your website, or wherever people can see more of your work.

  • An email with the subject line “Thistle Theory Submission” sent to Daughter of the Lilies @ Gmail by March 15, 2018 containing everything outlined in the Requirements.


PLEASE NOTE: Should you choose to submit your work and/or end up having it featured on the website, you acknowledge you are not expecting nor will demand any monetary payment for your work at any point. By submitting your work, you acknowledge that you are doing this of your own free will and will not be paid for your contribution, and are consenting to it being featured as a part of the Daughter of the Lilies website, should it be chosen, provided you are given proper accreditation and your name featured as you submitted it. If we choose to include these items or your work in a printed, physical version of the comic, you will be contacted at a later date and specifically asked for permission to do so, under the same terms of proper accreditation and no monetary compensation. You may request for your work to be removed from the online archive at any time.


Legalese Translation: You won’t get paid for this, but, if chosen, you will be featured as a permanent part of the DotL Archive and properly given credit for your work. We might include these Theories in a printed version of the comic, but only with your express and written permission to do so, with proper accreditation to you as the creator of the work, and the understanding that there is no financial reimbursement.

If, for any reason, you want your work to be removed from the online archive, we will honor your request and do so, no questions asked, regardless of when such a request is submitted. (If, say, in 5, 10, or 20 years, you decide you want to delete it from the website, we will help you do that.)


If this all sounds good to you, please send your writing and/or artwork to Daughter of the Lilies @ Gmail with the words “Thistle Theory Submission” in the Subject Line by MARCH 15, 2018. Thank you for reading!


Post edited by BellisPerennis on
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Comments

  • 10 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Gotta admit, if cave elves are as dangerous and cannibalistic as everyone says, I've got to side with Brent on this one.  I mean, take the fantasy element out of the equation and imagine there's a gang of serial murdering, cannibalistic bandits roaming around. What do you do? You hunt them down.  If you find one alone with your baby, what do you do?  You scream and fight it off.  Maybe there's some kind of racism surrounding them, but the fact that one literally took a bite out of Brent's arm makes me think they're as dangerous as everyone says.
  • First:  This whole episode must have been especially hard on Thistle - what must it be like, hunting down your own kind? - Seeing a poster that characterizes them as an "infestation"? - Then getting the others to sign this poster, like a trophy, after successfully "exterminating" two of your own race... 

    Second:  What are the other team-members going to think when Thistle reveals her true form? - I can imagine Brent's face, when he remembers what he said about cave-elves back at the mine...
    What will Lyra think? Is there any kind of hostility between the different races of Elves?  
    Orrig will just deal with it, of course - that's what Orrig does... :)

    Third:  Every time I see a new picture of unmasked Thistle, I swear she looks cuter! If Disney ever saw this, they'd want to turn Thistle into a Disney Princess! (and in the process, mangle the story out of all recognition - but that's a given...) 
  • I agree with ThisAdamsGuy. Not to mention this- I guess we can call it "Identity Dissonance" is probably the Root of Thistle's Drath Echo.

    I hope the Gang finds a super nice and Non-Violent bunch of Cave Elves so Thistle can get some quiet reinforcement that the Cave Elves aren't Scary Cannibalistic monsters by default.

    And the more I see Thistle the more I'm Mentally Compairing her to a Flying Fox which is making her a Bajillion times cuter.
  • Gotta admit, if cave elves are as dangerous and cannibalistic as everyone says, I've got to side with Brent on this one.  I mean, take the fantasy element out of the equation and imagine there's a gang of serial murdering, cannibalistic bandits roaming around. What do you do? You hunt them down.  If you find one alone with your baby, what do you do?  You scream and fight it off.  Maybe there's some kind of racism surrounding them, but the fact that one literally took a bite out of Brent's arm makes me think they're as dangerous as everyone says.
    I think it that logic can only hold up with the fantasy element left in the equation. Where knowledge of race and culture is limited or nonexistent, and a fear of the unknown would be understandable. In the real world, no that wouldn't do as a good enough reason. There still are cannibalistic tribes in the real world, they are very very few in number, but they still exist in isolated places. There's a very simple way we coexist, we leave each other alone and don't go messing around in each other's business. Neither party wants to have contact with the other. So to even hypothetically have a "what if" scenario for a roaming race of cannibalistic serial killers is so unrealistic, it can only serve as a weak self-justification for hunting down some other race/culture.

    Going back to including the fantasy part. In this story setting, for now as far as we are aware of (or at least as far as I'm aware). Thistle is the only cave elf who is no more likely to take a bite out of someone than anyone else. So given only the information we have, yes, it can be safe to say everyone's reaction is totally justified. Other than sentience, they have no other reason to believe Cave Elves are capable of anything other than nibbling on you. 

    But I think it is a bit hasty to assume, from the perspective of a reader, that cave elves are indeed as blatantly evil as depicted so far. Clearly there is more to them, and we are just beginning to be shown the larger picture. I would expect there has been at least one attempt at peaceful information gathering between a scholar/scientist of some sort and a group of Cave Elves. Given Thistle has knowledge that they are a matriarchal society and highly superstitious, that information had to come from somewhere. I think we'll find out more, and see that maybe racism plays a bigger role than initially believed. That encounters with friendly(-ish) cave elves could have happened before, but due to misunderstanding/predisposition they are still viewed as a inhumane race as a whole. With each act of conflict only reinforcing that outlook.

    I don't think Thistle will end up being the only non-violent/non-cannibal cave elf we meet. And an entire race of cave elves could not live off of only cannibalism of the other races. I think it would make more sense that their culture simply has no problem with cannibalism. But their diet still consists of 99% animals/plants. Either from preying of animals that live in caves or wildlife near caves. With the only instances of cave elf cannibalism, being when habitats overlap due to territory expansion of either the cave elf or other races.
  • DaiJB said:
    First:  This whole episode must have been especially hard on Thistle - what must it be like, hunting down your own kind? - Seeing a poster that characterizes them as an "infestation"? - Then getting the others to sign this poster, like a trophy, after successfully "exterminating" two of your own race... 

    Second:  What are the other team-members going to think when Thistle reveals her true form? - I can imagine Brent's face, when he remembers what he said about cave-elves back at the mine...
    What will Lyra think? Is there any kind of hostility between the different races of Elves?  
    Orrig will just deal with it, of course - that's what Orrig does... :)
    I know right! That's gotta be causing all sorts of conflicting emotions :(
    I wonder if there is going to be another job involving a cave elf "infestation", either which will either escalate things, make her even more upset, or maybe she'll just refuse to participate, then bam, drama. Either way after Brent finds out her identity he is going to feel like the biggest ass jerk face and probably tots cry an apology. Lyra would probably think her scars are hawt. Yeah and Orrig would probably deal like you said, cause he's Orrig.
  • Carpetmat said:
    But I think it is a bit hasty to assume, from the perspective of a reader, that cave elves are indeed as blatantly evil as depicted so far. Clearly there is more to them, and we are just beginning to be shown the larger picture. I would expect there has been at least one attempt at peaceful information gathering between a scholar/scientist of some sort and a group of Cave Elves. Given Thistle has knowledge that they are a matriarchal society and highly superstitious, that information had to come from somewhere. I think we'll find out more, and see that maybe racism plays a bigger role than initially believed. That encounters with friendly(-ish) cave elves could have happened before, but due to misunderstanding/predisposition they are still viewed as a inhumane race as a whole. With each act of conflict only reinforcing that outlook.

    Perhaps, but the fact that one literally took a bite out of Brent is pretty damning, in my opinion.  Even if he was intruding on their territory or whatever, there are tons of ways to take out an intruder that doesn't include eating him alive.  No matter what, that's always going to be extreme.
  • When it comes to Cave Elves, my opinion is this. Culture or not, people who eat people are going to receive a reasonable amount of fear and hatred from their victims. Cannibalism just isn't morally acceptable no matter how you spin it.
    However, to our knowledge, Thistle doesn't eat people. Her being a cave elf doesn't matter at that point; that's just part of who she is just like my brown hair is part of who I am.
    Cave Elves who eat people are bad (or at least have bad actions).
    Cave Elves who don't eat people are good (and ridiculously cute).
  • CarpetmatCarpetmat Member
    edited February 16 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Mobile made the quotes weird, re-posted this comment below
    Post edited by Carpetmat on
  • CarpetmatCarpetmat Member
    edited February 16 Vote Up0Vote Down
    ThisAdamGuy said:
    Perhaps, but the fact that one literally took a bite out of Brent is pretty damning, in my opinion.  Even if he was intruding on their territory or whatever, there are tons of ways to take out an intruder that doesn't include eating him alive.  No matter what, that's always going to be extreme.

    Oh I see your point now, yeah I guess that is totally a bit extreme, even for a cannibal, to start eating someone in the middle of a scuffle, while they are still alive. 

    When it comes to Cave Elves, my opinion is this. Culture or not, people who eat people are going to receive a reasonable amount of fear and hatred from their victims. Cannibalism just isn't morally acceptable no matter how you spin it.
    However, to our knowledge, Thistle doesn't eat people. Her being a cave elf doesn't matter at that point; that's just part of who she is just like my brown hair is part of who I am.
    Cave Elves who eat people are bad (or at least have bad actions).
    Cave Elves who don't eat people are good (and ridiculously cute).
    I don't disagree really, for real world cannibals, but I wouldn't say it "isn't morally acceptable no matter how you spin it", especially in a fantasy setting that involves fantasy reasons. There's the video game "Divinity Original Sin" that has a great version of fantasy cannibal elves, with plenty of cultural fluff and magic/mystical reasons to justify it as a racial trait. They did a great job of making that form of cannibalism spiritual, in a sense, rather than evil and unnatural. And they still included both racism and justified fear from the members of other races who didn't understand or agree with it. I thought it was a really cool and unique version of elves, even if they still stuck relatively close to the tree people trope.
    Post edited by Carpetmat on
  • Carpetmat said:
    I don't disagree really, for real world cannibals, but I wouldn't say it "isn't morally acceptable no matter how you spin it", especially in a fantasy setting that involves fantasy reasons. There's the video game "Divinity Original Sin" that has a great version of fantasy cannibal elves, with plenty of cultural fluff and magic/mystical reasons to justify it as a racial trait. They did a great job of making that form of cannibalism spiritual, in a sense, rather than evil and unnatural. And they still included both racism and justified fear from the members of other races who didn't understand or agree with it. I thought it was a really cool and unique version of elves, even if they still stuck relatively close to the tree people trope.
    As mentioned, there are plenty of cannibalistic cultures in our own world. I absolutely agree that those cultures are not necessarily immoral. I agree that Divinity did an excellent job of portraying this; however, any kind of physical harm (especially harm that results in death) that is encouraged by religion/government/culture is almost always immoral.
    I don't think the cave elves are evil, awful creatures that should be indiscriminately hated. I do, however, think that their actions (probably influenced by their culture) should be hated and should be dealt with. Perhaps Thistle will have some time to convince both cave elf and non that everyone can co-exist peacefully.

     I mean, in between fighting the magical hordes of hell, of course.
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