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Daughter of the Lilies - 7.50

2

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  • I gotta say I am rather disappointed by the reveal.  All of this build-up to her not fitting in with society, looking truly inhuman, alien, or monstrous instead she looks like a cave elf.

    I feel this ruins her character since there is magic and glamour is a thing that can be done with magic.
    Post edited by John on
  • Oh my goodness, she's so cute, I love love love herrrrr
  • It just feels lazy to me. With the reveal it becomes a case of racism, nothing more. However, I do not mean to belittle the issue that is racism because it is still a huge fucking problem in our world that needs fixing.

    The readers are led to believe that Thistle has an appearance under the hood that makes everyone terrified of her. That she is somehow disfigured. An appearance that wouldn't sit well in the fantasy setting. I figure it would be akin to something like an alien appearance or eldritch horror. Something that is unknowable and utterly terrifying, but that is not the case here.

    And with her being a cave elf I do not understand how she can say even cave elves are afraid of her appearance since here she will be defending herself.
    Post edited by John on
  • AAAHAHAHHAHAHA And the reveal finally happened! It's been hard keeping things secret for the past few years. hehehehe
  • I like to think the cave elf not only run away because of her being female, but because maybe that Thistle is quite infamous in Cave Elf society; perhaps some sort of prophecy in there? The clues are currently suggesting that her blue eyes have something to do with her being a wizard (something I think many of us assume to be the case) - and I find it not hard to imagine at all that Cave Elves are as much troubled by Draths as any other species.
    Wu has a obviously some sort of leadership position and is adored by many; who says that Thistle wouldn't have the same sort of standing in Cave Elf society? She could be considered some kind of magical champion for defeating draths. Or maybe they have more wide spread knowledge about wizards - at least in the sense "the one with sparkling blue eyes are special, so treat them with respect" - common Cave Elves don't know why, but they follow this rule nonetheless.
    Thistle for some reason left that society (personally I think she's been abandoned as baby/child and then kinda adopted by Hym & Gwendolin); but returning to that society does not seem like an option for Thistle - after all, her beloved plants need sunlight to thrive.
    (I think it would be actually very awesome if ALLCave Elves in the end turn out as not so bad after all; that the cannibalism stuff will be actually explained and make total sense from their point of view (or that my silly crack theory that ALL Dotl elves have cannibalistic tendencies turns out to be true ;) ))
  • Bask in the pure freaking adorableness that is Thistle
    *Squeee!*

    I actually found out Thistle was a Cave Elf (though I thought she was a dark elf for the longest of times) several months back after digging through Meg's DeviantArt, and let me tell you, her design then was beautiful. But this... This is so much better, let me tell you XD She was beautiful and all, but this design just fits her so much better, and it makes me sO HAPPY.

    ALSO I love the Alt Text; what a wonderful parallel from page one to page now (yep that's a thing now)

    Guess what I'ma be drawing in the next 30 seconds? XD
    Post edited by File_13 on
  • By the way, do you imagine receiving an order to hunt and kill your own species? After all, let's not forget that the sign says "kill order: cave elf".

    Edit: OH !! And in CHapter VII, when Thistle and OrcDad are completing the IRS returns, please note that Thistle is undeclared in "race", but also undeclared in magic specialty. Now, this is somewhat odd, as even if she is shy, Thistle should have been able to indicate anything - even just "plants". However, maybe her specialty is very closely tied to her origins?
    Post edited by p_stein on
  • She's DARLING!!!! And poor sweetie, I wonder how she got those scars...
  • Also, oh my gOD SHE'S SO FREAKING CUTE
  • Poor darling, so many scars on her cute face! She had to endure much hurting experiences in her life :(
  • I'd love to see a side comic of Thistle's childhood. Assuming that she was raised by civilization and not a group of cannibalistic elves, of course. Or, even better, if she WAS raised by a group of cannibalistic elves and her journey to getting out of that society! We don't know Thistle's backstory completely, of course, so I'm guessing a lot here, but I'd LOVE to read what her childhood was like, even though it will probably make me cry.
  • Thistle says in the first pages that in cave elf society, the women have ultimate authority. So the fact that this cave elf was beating up his superior would be something akin to treason.
    OH! So maybe that's why he ran away crying? 
    "Oh gods, I'm a traitor! D:" 
  • "With the reveal it becomes a case of racism, nothing more. " becomes a case of racism, nothing more racism, nothing more. Like that's totally not something people get killed for all the time. WOW. Major flashbacks. I'm sorry but a year ago I was sobbing myself to sleep begging heaven to keep my sister from *dying* at Standing Rock, where attack dogs, bombs and mercenaries were being turned on unarmed women, men and children for their race and their attempt to protect their right to unsullied homes and clean water. Please reconsider your words when you talk like this, and who might be listening
  • Ack! She's adorable! Her ears and nose are so cute!
  • John said:
    It just feels lazy to me. With the reveal it becomes a case of racism, nothing more. However, I do not mean to belittle the issue that is racism because it is still a huge fucking problem in our world that needs fixing.

    I don't think we should try to read real-world racism into this part of the story. In the real world, darker skin doesn't actually make you more primitive, Jews don't actually own all the money (or at least I've not gotten my cut) or bake the blood of babies into our matzah, white people are not all racist, etc. Cave elves in the world of DotL, though certainly more than mere animals, actually are cannibals and genuinely dangerous to everyone else. This means that Thistle has a much bigger problem than racism, as evidenced by a whole village going on terrified red alert when Lou Ann saw her standing over the baby.

    While fantasy and sci-fi are wonderful vehicles for exploring humanity and philosophy, they lose their magic if we're not willing to let the "what-if" take us beyond our 21st Century first-world mindset: "What if people fear and hate you, but it's not because of a misperception about your people?"

    Hey, it worked pretty darn well to make Drizzt Do'Urden so popular, and he wasn't nearly as adorable as Thistle.
  • OhmtgodIfreakingcalleditilovethis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She's so pretty!!!!! Thank you Meg!!!!!!!!! Honestly I think this adds to her more, because in cannon her race if full of cannibals and therefor despised and treated as monsters that need to be exterminated so although she looks pretty to us her face would cause most of the people who meet her and don't know her well would try to kill. Honestly I was hoping it would go this direction. Also! It means that she took a job to kill some of what she would consider people and got really upset because her friends/co-workers considered them to be monsters and thats just!!!! Oh baby nooooo. Poor Thistle honey.
    Post edited by blueberrykittens on
  • Also, this may have been talked about in other threads, but is anyone else seeing the replies out of order?
  • John said:

    I really don't understand the point of AU's. The events that the author of something makes are canon. No amount of wishing will change it.
    The point isn't to change the canon, through wishful thinking or anything else. The point is that some "what if"s that lead the story down a different path can be just as interesting as the "canon" version, or even more so - they can grow into good, entertaining stories worth telling in their own right.
    What is "canon" or not says very little abot that.
  • John said:

    I really don't understand the point of AU's. The events that the author of something makes are canon. No amount of wishing will change it.
    The point isn't to change the canon, through wishful thinking or anything else. The point is that some "what if"s that lead the story down a different path can be just as interesting as the "canon" version, or even more so - they can grow into good, entertaining stories worth telling in their own right.
    What is "canon" or not says very little abot that.


    Ahh, ok. I understand. Thank you.
  • Merlyn12 said:
    "With the reveal it becomes a case of racism, nothing more. " becomes a case of racism, nothing more racism, nothing more. Like that's totally not something people get killed for all the time. WOW. Major flashbacks. I'm sorry but a year ago I was sobbing myself to sleep begging heaven to keep my sister from *dying* at Standing Rock, where attack dogs, bombs and mercenaries were being turned on unarmed women, men and children for their race and their attempt to protect their right to unsullied homes and clean water. Please reconsider your words when you talk like this, and who might be listening


    I am very sorry to have brought up such horrible memories. I meant no offense. I will keep this in mind.
  • While I also had hoped for an actually horrific looking protagonist, who isnt cute or pretty in any way, I do really like this reveal. It's very fitting with what we've seen of her so far that shes not actually that bad to look at but due to prejudices and what people say about her she thinks of herself as horrific and its a neat thing.
  • Koldun said:
    This seems like a good as place as any to make note of a detail I noticed during an archive crawl. We all remember that when healing Lou-Anne's baby, Thistle's pupils took on a golden light.

    Well, she's not the only one: http://www.daughterofthelilies.com/dotl/613.

    It seems that whatever is affecting Thistle happened to Master Wu as well.

    It's pretty much been blatantly hinted at that Thistle is now the youngest Wizard, having probably inherited the powers of the old man we see at the start of chapter 5. Master Wu's questions about (you are the youngest?) (newly chosen?) cemented that more or less, and then the glowy eyes and the fact she can do what most other magic users cannot is just icing on that cake.

    Also *SQUEEEEE* SHE'S SO ADORABLE!

    Post edited by Cryngosa on
  • p_stein said:

    Edit: OH !! And in CHapter VII, when Thistle and OrcDad are completing the IRS returns, please note that Thistle is undeclared in "race", but also undeclared in magic specialty. Now, this is somewhat odd, as even if she is shy, Thistle should have been able to indicate anything - even just "plants".
    I think of three possible reason she did not choice a specialization:
    1. She does not really consider herself as really good in anything; the times we've seen her do badass stuff she probably remembers as not that much of a deal, a "real" mage would have done much better. We know she has self-esteem issues, so it makes sense that she underestimates her own abilities or does only ever compares herself to some merely fictious proto-mage that has been given the exact same powers and does of course much better than her; having an Echo for an substantious amount of time inside her, most likely poisened her self evaluation even for the things she's genuinely good at.
    2. She tries to not get noticed; the summary states "relentlessly pursued by a tyrannical dictator". It would not surprise me if that one knows what her specialities would be; and her specific talents might be rare enough, that having a document listing them and your current affiliation might be a very, very bad idea. What dictator with half a brain would not check official records for a job she might very likely end at from time to time? Even if "undeclared" is kinda suspicious, too, it still is less of a hint than listing a perfect description of her.
    3. How can you have a speciality, when you're awesome at everything? B)
  • I have a theory!
    So, when Thistle and Brent were talking about the Drath and how she got her echo, Thistle thought about what looked like a cave elf summoning a Drath, or performing some kind of ritual.
    When we see the Cave elves in chapter 1, the one that attacks Thistle seems to do so out of rage and looks like he is crying over the other elfs death. It seems like they are more than just mindless creatures, yet Thistle seems different. I think se was rejected even from cave elf society. Maybe because of her origins, but i think the Cave elves used her as a sacrifice for a Drath summoning, and she was saved by that light creature.
    That would explain why the elf was so shocked or horrified when seeing Thistle, because she was supposed to be dead or consumed.
    Earlier, Master Wu said "the youngest?" And something which sounded like Thistle was chosen. Wat if when the light creature saved her, she became one of its "servants" that it mentioned when saving Brent? That could be how she has glowing eyes and the different kind of magic she used to save the baby!
    Post edited by BellisPerennis on
  • So... theory: Cave Elves are descendants of elves possessed, or exposed to/tainted/scarred, by the Drath. My reasoning? Their similar physical characteristics (darker skin color than their counterparts, red eyes, claws, etc.), and the fact that they speak the same language as Professor Fike as he tries to assert his will over Brody during the Drath rituals. (though that can just be meg and crew using the same font to encrypt the words?) If not, I figured it would still be an interesting idea.
  • I don't understand why a cave elf would run in terror from the sight of another cave elf.
  • Carpetmat said:
    I have to say, at first I was really disappointed too. I remember seeing the upper face and eyes a few panels ago and thinking to myself "If she ends up being just a misunderstood hottie, I'm gonna super upset. She clearly should be horribly ugly as has been suggested and hinted at the entire time". But that was cause I was really liking the idea of a main character who, for once, isn't good looking or a cutie-patootie. I thought that would be a nice change of pace and be more interesting. Also I was on board the "permanently disfigured by drath interaction" train.

    But I'm glad I came to the forums to express my disappointment, cause I read through the comments and realized I was totally wrong. My opinion of this reveal went from "cliched" to "brilliant". It wasn't a mismatched buildup/reveal, it had been thoroughly and faithfully hinted at the entire time. I had just misunderstood the hints. In the context of the story, the setting, poor self image, character knowledge, and everything else, it totally fits and makes perfect sense to me now.

    Had the reveal been of a horrible visage, I probably would have been like "OH MY GOD SHE'S... exactly what I expected... Okay then" which then I guess isn't much of a surprise, game changing, reveal. But she's just a total cutie-patootie and love her now more than ever.

    I'm going to be thinking about this all day now, going back and re-reading everything to find all the other tidbits I missed. Thanks a lot, I had exams to study for today you jerks.
    this brings up something i really enjoy cus i think the experience was really important i'm sure many of us were thinking "oh god oh god whats wrong with her" for awhile now especially with the lead up and then THIS and we think "What? Whats wrong with her, I dont see anything. She's just an elf, she's perfectly normal she's just a cave el-......" and then you remember the people chasing her down the streets, the 'virmin" her boss holding one of the cave elf's head steady as he prepared to desecrate its body and bring its body parts to some high class people as 'proof" "i wish they took more for what you're doing to them!" "stupid worthless girl, you wont do anything right" like that emotional moment really impacts the sensation of realizing just how much of an artificial construct racism is (obviously alot of people know that.but i imagine this will be read by alot of preteen to early 20s people which is a good age for this, when its on the bookshelf)
    Post edited by tristan2004 on
  • I think she is beautiful... but I am looking at her from the point of view of someone who watched her here. There in that world people will see her and thing CAVE ELF!! AGGGG! and shoot 1st and ask later.  her own team might even taken aback if they saw her.. maybe not orrig. I think he would say. "so how did you come to look like cave elf?! " Cause By the way you talk and act and think I am Pretty sure you no born no cave elf!!!"


  • She is beautiful. I can't stop thinking about how the author describes her. She is used as avatar by lots of people from top1apk. That's why i know her. And, after knowing her past and her life, i feel so sorry for her. 
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